Tag: Creator

On God and Suffering: Dialogue with an Atheist

After completing his PhD in religious studies, my friend Leon became an atheist! 

    After that, he and I got into debates over the existence of God that would rage on for whole weekends, but it all seemed to get down to the problem of suffering. Given the wonders of our world, belief in a Creator would be easy if it were not for all the suffering. 

    Here is a summary of Leon’s toughest questions and my best answers on God and suffering.

Leon: How can you believe in a good God when there is so much suffering and evil in the world?

Bruce: I believe good is foundational, and suffering and evil are secondary. Evil is always only a corruption of something that was originally good. For example, illness is a corruption of original health. War is a corruption of original peace. God created everything good in the beginning. Good, not evil, is the bottom line in life.

Leon: If God is the Creator, God is the cause of everything. God must, therefore, cause suffering. 

Bruce: God does not want or cause suffering and evil. Secondary causes, that is, natural laws and human freedom, cause suffering. So that we would not live in chaos, God created the laws of nature, which normally serve us well. 

    However, nature blindly follows its laws, much as an avalanche obeys gravity, whether humans are in the way or not. Also, you can’t have true love without freedom of choice, so God created humans with free will. But sometimes, we make wrong choices and sin. If most of the suffering in the world is caused by our wrong choices, the question is not “How can God allow suffering?” but rather “How can humans allow it?”

Leon: If God does not want suffering, what does God do to alleviate it? I don’t think God cares.

Bruce: The Bible teaches us how to overcome evil and suffering by obeying God’s laws. It also teaches us that we can call upon God at any time for help with suffering and that true happiness lies in having a loving relationship with God.

Leon: But if there is a loving and all-powerful God, why would there be any suffering?

Bruce: Paradoxically, although suffering is the main reason people don’t believe in God, God is the ultimate answer to suffering. If there is a loving and all-powerful God, then suffering must make sense, although we may not immediately understand it. Trust in God’s goodness provides hope in the midst of suffering, thus eliminating the worst suffering, that is, meaningless suffering.

Leon: I still think there is more suffering than good, which disproves there is a loving God.

Bruce: Beyond foundational goodness, there is “secondary goodness”, that is, our response to suffering. This is how all the helping professions arose: medicine, law, psychology, social work, etc. All progress is a response to suffering. Good abounds, and God is in charge.

Leon: But if there is a loving God who is in charge, why would he allow suffering?

Bruce: God does not normally allow us to suffer and only allows suffering and evil so that higher values and attitudes such as humility, compassion, forgiveness and wisdom might emerge.

Leon: I still don’t see a God anywhere out there helping us with suffering. Where is God anyway?

Bruce: God is invisible, but we can see that God has created us with great defences against suffering. Everyone comes with some built-in, standard equipment: a brain, the greatest problem-solver in the world, and the human spirit, the great urge to fight against suffering. 

    God has also given us people who aid us in avoiding suffering and who are great supports when we do suffer: parents, spouses, and friends. Through people and angels, God either protects us from suffering and evil or helps us to get through it. God comforts us, encourages us, carries us through suffering, and works with us to bring secondary goodness out of suffering and evil.

Leon: I still don’t think God actively cares. God just sits up there and watches us suffer.

Bruce: The Christian belief is that God suffers when we suffer. If God is everywhere (including within us) and knows everything, and we are God’s children, then God knows and feels our pain. God is not some detached sky-god. The Cross is the great symbol that God suffers with us.

Leon: Suffering is so horrible, though. Life is so hard and so meaningless. What’s the point of it?

Bruce: Christ on the Cross transformed suffering, showing that suffering can have meaning. He showed us that to suffer for others is the deepest love.

Leon: I still don’t think there is any final answer to suffering.

Bruce: Often, all you can do is accompany the suffering person, not give them your answers, but if there is a final answer, it is that God overcomes all suffering in heaven forever. God gives believers ultimate and eternal joy, peace, happiness, and love. Things began as “very good” (Genesis 1:31), the end is even better, and the middle is good in spite of negative news reports. All is well that ends well, but you have to have faith to see the goodness of God in all things.

Bruce Tallman is a spiritual director and author: http://www.brucetallman.com

3 Big Ideas for May 1, 2019

  1. The modern worldview is that because our universe is so old and so vast, humans are totally insignificant. A more helpful and meaningful approach is that because of our intelligence and creativity, which it took the universe so long to produce – 13.7 billion years – we can say again, as people did before astrophysics, that humans are not only significant but central to the entire universe.
  2. Georges Lemaitre, a Belgian physicist and priest, first postulated that, as in Genesis, the first book of the Bible, there must have been a beginning to the universe. Then George Isamow, an American-Russian physicist, postulated the Big Bang Theory, the current view among scientists. Since scientists have proven that everything is expanding outward, if you go back in time far enough, it must have all begun from a single point. Science has to be materially based, it can’t start with spirit, and therefore Isamow further theorized that the universe came from a tiny particle. However, this idea that all the matter of the universe as we now know it was somehow packed into an infinitely small particle seems absurd and is an untestable hypothesis. As such it is a myth. I am not anti-science, in fact I think science is an incredible tool that reveals even more of God’s glory. But I also believe it is important to understand that science is based on this myth. It is just as logical, in fact I believe more logical, to say that the whole universe came from an Almighty Creator.
  3. Ignatius of Loyola invented the prayer method of inserting yourself imaginatively right into scenes from the Bible. For example, you are in a boat with the disciples in a raging sea. You feel the rocking of the boat, the spray of the waves, and then you see someone walking on the water. You feel the fear of the disciples who didn’t recognize it was Jesus and thought they were seeing a ghost. You feel amazement and relief when Jesus calms the wind and sea and gets into the boat with them. Many people have found that this method of imaginative contemplation leads them beyond “head-knowledge” to “heart-knowledge” of God and emotionally transforms them through a direct experience of God.