Tag: goodness

On God and Suffering: Dialogue with an Atheist

After completing his PhD in religious studies, my friend Leon became an atheist! 

    After that, he and I got into debates over the existence of God that would rage on for whole weekends, but it all seemed to get down to the problem of suffering. Given the wonders of our world, belief in a Creator would be easy if it were not for all the suffering. 

    Here is a summary of Leon’s toughest questions and my best answers on God and suffering.

Leon: How can you believe in a good God when there is so much suffering and evil in the world?

Bruce: I believe good is foundational, and suffering and evil are secondary. Evil is always only a corruption of something that was originally good. For example, illness is a corruption of original health. War is a corruption of original peace. God created everything good in the beginning. Good, not evil, is the bottom line in life.

Leon: If God is the Creator, God is the cause of everything. God must, therefore, cause suffering. 

Bruce: God does not want or cause suffering and evil. Secondary causes, that is, natural laws and human freedom, cause suffering. So that we would not live in chaos, God created the laws of nature, which normally serve us well. 

    However, nature blindly follows its laws, much as an avalanche obeys gravity, whether humans are in the way or not. Also, you can’t have true love without freedom of choice, so God created humans with free will. But sometimes, we make wrong choices and sin. If most of the suffering in the world is caused by our wrong choices, the question is not “How can God allow suffering?” but rather “How can humans allow it?”

Leon: If God does not want suffering, what does God do to alleviate it? I don’t think God cares.

Bruce: The Bible teaches us how to overcome evil and suffering by obeying God’s laws. It also teaches us that we can call upon God at any time for help with suffering and that true happiness lies in having a loving relationship with God.

Leon: But if there is a loving and all-powerful God, why would there be any suffering?

Bruce: Paradoxically, although suffering is the main reason people don’t believe in God, God is the ultimate answer to suffering. If there is a loving and all-powerful God, then suffering must make sense, although we may not immediately understand it. Trust in God’s goodness provides hope in the midst of suffering, thus eliminating the worst suffering, that is, meaningless suffering.

Leon: I still think there is more suffering than good, which disproves there is a loving God.

Bruce: Beyond foundational goodness, there is “secondary goodness”, that is, our response to suffering. This is how all the helping professions arose: medicine, law, psychology, social work, etc. All progress is a response to suffering. Good abounds, and God is in charge.

Leon: But if there is a loving God who is in charge, why would he allow suffering?

Bruce: God does not normally allow us to suffer and only allows suffering and evil so that higher values and attitudes such as humility, compassion, forgiveness and wisdom might emerge.

Leon: I still don’t see a God anywhere out there helping us with suffering. Where is God anyway?

Bruce: God is invisible, but we can see that God has created us with great defences against suffering. Everyone comes with some built-in, standard equipment: a brain, the greatest problem-solver in the world, and the human spirit, the great urge to fight against suffering. 

    God has also given us people who aid us in avoiding suffering and who are great supports when we do suffer: parents, spouses, and friends. Through people and angels, God either protects us from suffering and evil or helps us to get through it. God comforts us, encourages us, carries us through suffering, and works with us to bring secondary goodness out of suffering and evil.

Leon: I still don’t think God actively cares. God just sits up there and watches us suffer.

Bruce: The Christian belief is that God suffers when we suffer. If God is everywhere (including within us) and knows everything, and we are God’s children, then God knows and feels our pain. God is not some detached sky-god. The Cross is the great symbol that God suffers with us.

Leon: Suffering is so horrible, though. Life is so hard and so meaningless. What’s the point of it?

Bruce: Christ on the Cross transformed suffering, showing that suffering can have meaning. He showed us that to suffer for others is the deepest love.

Leon: I still don’t think there is any final answer to suffering.

Bruce: Often, all you can do is accompany the suffering person, not give them your answers, but if there is a final answer, it is that God overcomes all suffering in heaven forever. God gives believers ultimate and eternal joy, peace, happiness, and love. Things began as “very good” (Genesis 1:31), the end is even better, and the middle is good in spite of negative news reports. All is well that ends well, but you have to have faith to see the goodness of God in all things.

Bruce Tallman is a spiritual director and author: http://www.brucetallman.com

O HAPPY FAULT

All humans are innately spiritual

and if they develop/mature properly

they feel a need to celebrate

with ritual and sacrifice

their participation in Ultimate Mystery.

Confucians (followers of Master Kung Fu)

believed in the goodness of human nature

and encouraged this goodness to come out

through a sacred culture

that elevates humans in love.

“Belief in the goodness of God/humans/life

is not just a choice, it is a Resurrection.

When we believe in the Source of Life

we are raised to a new spiritual level of being.”

– Thomas Merton

But “First we fall, and later we see our fall

as the Mercy of God.” – Julian of Norwich

We live far away from God until we are broken

and return to God.

The Fall is the ‘happy fault’ sung at Easter Vigil –

the Great Mistake that caused our Great Savior

to come and pitch his tent among women and men.

In Confessions Augustine wrestled

with the triple temptation:

“lust of the flesh/lust of the eyes/and pride.”

Spiritual pride leads people to claim

God’s sanction for their own projects –

this can lead to the worst injustice

because any opposition to “my way”

is considered satanic.

All spiritual disciplines have one purpose:

to rid us of the illusions of the flesh and the eyes

so we can see clearly and live in Reality/God

but most cultures are trapped

in the trance of materialism:

“It’s all about the money.”

The grand displacement of culture

happened when materialistic science

replaced religion as the answer

to all questions of ultimate concern

and of what we should trust

and pledge allegiance to.

After medieval times culture was unified

no longer by God

but by the self-thinking individual subject.

Each person had to figure out the world and life

using rational thought alone.

Nietzsche saw this as the death of God.

People want to turn inward

but dualistic, either-or thinking

can lead to the misconception

that inner work is self-centered navel-gazing

out of touch with Reality – the material world.

However, depth psychology teaches

genuine holiness is not just self-abnegation

not just being totally other-centered

with no thought for the self –

rather it is both self-awareness

and self-transformation for others.

If you give in to the temptation to resist transformation

you never become a spiritual adult.

In any case the only place

you can simultaneously

touch Jesus/the Holy Spirit/

and the kingdom/queendom/kindom of God

is within you.

Beyond searching just for comfort

if we want a more full and passionate life

we need the type of curiosity

that does not shy away

from looking at painful things.

And we need the realization

that we can endure a lot of pain

in our search for truth about God/the world/and our self.

If we pursue truth wholeheartedly

we will eventually conclude

only Christ can heal

all our pain/lust/illusions/temptations/and pride.